Curse

sinsio · Oct 12, 2005, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Every now and then in a pvp game of 4-on-4, I run into a situation where my team will kill off all but one the opposing team. The survivor has used or does not have a res to use nor is able to kill my team. He or she instead runs or uses defensive skills making him or her unkillable by my particular team. The match then becomes a waiting game of who will give up first. Eventually, the survivor wins since the team decides it has better things to do with its time that to sit around attacking/chasing someone fruitlessly. I've also had some matches where I waited out of principle and eventually won, sometimes waiting over 50 minutes.

While technically a draw, is it right to award the sole survivor the win even though his or her sole contribution was outwaiting the opposing team? My argument to the survivor has always been that while they themselves were good players, their team as a whole were not good and since this was a team match, he or she lost. Or should the sole survivor win because the match rules state that all team members must be killed or that the next kill wins?

A timer which ended the game with a draw would put an end to games like that. It would start when 3 people out of a 4 man team was killed and the other team had 2 or more members. It would go away if the survivor brought a teammate back to life. While the timer is running, if the sole survivor manages to kill the opposing team down to 1 player, the timer resets and starts over at 5 minutes. If an entire team dies while the timer is running, the timer turns off and the existing match rules of the match apply (kill all teams, kill all teams and priest, sudden death.)

This would end prolonged games that are technically a draw and would not hand a win to the person(s) that wait the longest. Most people could live with that. What do you guys think of my suggestion?

Should there be a 5 minute timer for sole survivors in pvp?

A) Yes, of course. Waiting around is a boring. Better to call it a stalemate and play on.

B) No, stop whining already. The match rules state that a whole team must die.

C) Yes, but only if the sole survivor's team loses. The other team earned the win by eliminating most of the other team. A runner or survivor build is cheap and is only a stalling tactic. Their team technically lost.

D) Yes, but the sole survivor's team should win. It is the fault of the other team that they don't have a build capable of finishing off an entire team.

E) Yes and no. There should be a timer but 5 minutes is too long/short.

mortalis doleo · Oct 12, 2005, 09:11 AM // 09:11

not a, b, c, d or e.
just /signed

Navaros · Oct 12, 2005, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Ah, I see you are saying it would be a "draw".

But then what happens to the team with more members. Most likely they would not want to split up and at the present time anything besides a win causes that to happen.

So are you suggesting that the team with more than 1 member living would stay together?

If so,

Would their consecutive win number be reset to zero?

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Oct 12, 2005, 09:39 AM // 09:39

If the situation is 4 player versus 1 remaining player, and all four of you are unable to kill the one last player, then from my point of view, your team of 4 players do not deserve a win.

mortalis doleo · Oct 12, 2005, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

If the situation is 4 player versus 1 remaining player, and all four of you are unable to kill the one last player, then from my point of view, your team of 4 players do not deserve a win.

that isnt fair at all!
in team arena, i can understand, but what can a random team with no enchant removal/health degen do against a invinci build of any kind?

wonderworm · Oct 12, 2005, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

that isnt fair at all!
in team arena, i can understand, but what can a random team with no enchant removal/health degen do against a invinci build of any kind?

I'd call that bad luck, if you wanna win vs such a build just bring enchantment removal yourself.

The only fair option besides an endless match would be : automatic draw after a set number of minutes and both teams members are ported back to the arena.
But I like the current situation more, it's pretty funny to watch sometimes

Cnegurozka · Oct 12, 2005, 11:34 AM // 11:34

So far we won over any lamer build, but I'm defintly for c!
If you can't kill anything, just run and survive (maybe only vs special teams) you did nothing for the goal (kill the other team) and you should be punished/lose.

Schorny · Oct 12, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderworm

I'd call that bad luck, if you wanna win vs such a build just bring enchantment removal yourself.

Or interrupts, or degen, or energy denial,...

Everyone can bring just one skills and you will have an easy win. For example interrupts on a warrior are always good to have. The E/Me 'echo nuker' can try and bring Drain Enchantment, the Ranger can bring Poison,...

The only one who has an execuse to not bring anything is the monk.

pyrohex · Oct 12, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Kill them off, the idiots. I'd as quickly call it griefing as someone who pulls mobs to kill off the rest of your party.

mortalis doleo · Oct 12, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Or interrupts, or degen, or energy denial,...

Everyone can bring just one skills and you will have an easy win. For example interrupts on a warrior are always good to have. The E/Me 'echo nuker' can try and bring Drain Enchantment, the Ranger can bring Poison,...

The only one who has an execuse to not bring anything is the monk.

that is a nice thought, but do you think anyone would really bring those skills?
i always take rend enchantements when im necro or /necro, and enchant removal as mesmer, so on so forth, but im the only one taking those...

Xanthar · Oct 12, 2005, 03:20 PM // 15:20

I've played a lot of random arena fights, and only once have I been in a game that has entered a true stalemate (one guy alive on each side, unable to either deliver enough damage or catch up and kill). I'd say that the problem is less annoying than the faction farmers, but that's a bit off topic

I can agree to a timer though. Something like this maybe: If there occurs a period of ten minutes without any deaths on either side, the match is declared a draw. Both teams go on to the next match, but neither gains any winning faction and neither gets the +1 to their consecutive wins.

Presumably, if the teams doesn't kill even one single member of the opposing team in ten minutes, they are either unable to do so, or unwilling to do it - Meaning a draw is a reasonable result.

Ristaron · Oct 12, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

/signed for C and the love of the game
Kill all runners and defenseRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs! I have faction to win!

Schorny · Oct 12, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

that is a nice thought, but do you think anyone would really bring those skills?

In random arena - definatley not. Noone brings usefull skills there - that is the problem.

Warrior with healing breeze, healing hands, remove hex, mend ailment and mending do not have that much offensive skills and of course none is an interrupt.

I played often monk in random arena to train my reflexes and stuff and I often had to leave because of runners/invinci monks etc. Because my teammates where just plain stupid.

But I cannot blame the enemy - I have to blame my 'mates'. If people start to bring usefull skills all this griefing would end soon...

Mr Wolfmaster · Oct 12, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

/signed for C. Games Shouldn't be about which team gets bored first and quits. And someone shouldn't win cause they can dance around for a long time. If I'm the last person on my team and I don't have a way to rez I just let the other team kill me. (But only cause I'm one of the few people out there who are good sports)

sinsio · Oct 13, 2005, 03:47 AM // 03:47

I ran into this situation again today. twice. Once was on the beach map. The other in the most-kills lava pit. I play a healing monk. The first time, the survivor was an elemental monk. He had armor of earth, healing breeze, ethereal renewal, and orison. I was with a protection monk and 2 elementalists (earth and fire.) My teammates used knockdown earth spells and projectile fire damage spells. Occasionally we would hurt him but he would run around the swamp pits and buy enough to buy time to recover. My other 3 teammates quit after over half an hour of trying to kill him and it came down to just the two of us. He was unable to kill me with his earth damage spells and my pvp staff did 26 damage at best. He had an ace up his sleeve though. He had a res signet stored up which he used on a dead teammate who had stayed behind. The two of them were able to outdamage my heals with a combination of hexes and damage spells. According to him, that was a common strategy for him. He had purposely waited until my other teammates left before ressing and double teaming me.

The second time was with my monk, another monk, a ranger, and a mesmer vs. 2 monks, a necro, and an ele. It was the most-kills arena and neither team was able to get a single kill so we went into sudden death. Eventually, my team got bored and quit on me as well. I was left by myself against the other team. Annoyed that once again I might lose because of a stalemate, I considered running around for a brief moment. I decided to accept my fate instead. I let them beat on me for over a minute just to prove the point that they couldn't kill me (using Armor of Earth, Obsidian Flesh, Divine intervention, and heals), and handed the win to the more patient team. They even thanked me as I prepared to leave.

Navaros, I just wanted to suggest this idea. If the game makers should like this idea enough to implement it, I'll let them deal with the logistics.

I agree that this should apply only to random games such as the competition arena. The last time I looked, there were over 45 districts in the competition arena. This is certainly enough players to justify a timer if enough people encounter stalemates like I do.